Curse

arcanemacabre · Oct 03, 2006, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TsunamiZ

...if guild wars actually planned well to restrict character appearances of caucasian, asian, middle eastern, african--they would have limited the skin and hair color choices in each chapter. but as it stands now, it's a fantasy game. so this last-minute restriction on ethnicities based on faces is worthless, and now only limits the possibilities in gameplay.

I feel that the only reason they didn't limit actual skin colors, is for cries of racial inbalances. I think every company has to worry about that when considering just about anything thanks to the absolute insanity that is racism.

TsunamiZ · Oct 03, 2006, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

I feel that the only reason they didn't limit actual skin colors, is for cries of racial inbalances. I think every company has to worry about that when considering just about anything thanks to the absolute insanity that is racism.

what about racial imbalances in the face selection between chapters? the only main additional variation caucasians have over others is a few extra variety in colors of eye and hair. every Earth continent has people of significant and appealing face variations, too [of course certain variations can be distinct from other races]. lack of awareness of this partly due to caucasian people being presented more often in the media than any other race in caucasian countries. and the image of other races are often presented with stereotypical features, which leads to certain people to not be aware of these variations--which can range between quite different or quite similar to other races, depending on the individual. shouldn't guild wars consider that the limitations in expansion face / hair selection can be seen as a racial preference statement as well?

CrystalM · Oct 03, 2006, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Well, remember what they say about "assume," now.

The first thing to know is that we're tracking choices all the time. We know what faces are chosen, which are not chosen, and we're going to use that data to help us bring you more highly-choose-able faces. That's why you have a beta event, to see what works, what needs fixing, what needs expanding and/or improving, and on and on.

Then I suggest the Guild Wars Designers look closer at the choices you tracked.

The most well-known monk hair in Tyria is the Princess Leia hair....why.... It is the hair that is the least bald hair style of all the types available and it is not a short cut hair style.

Look at Factions, most of the hair styles chosen for Faction monks are the long hair styles.

Now why is it in Nightfall most of the Hair styles again are short short braided hair styles for female monks????? Now maybe we did not see all the styles going into the final release of Nightfall, but 90% of the styles are short braided ugly looking monk hair styles. And most people I know agree. And if you look around Guild Wars you will see most female monks do Not Choose the short short hair or bald head style. I am not saying you are not tracking but the Design Team is certainly is not making a wide variety of Hair Styles. They all look the same with a few minor changes in braiding style. Why not some long hair choices flowing hair, medium straight hair, long perm hair......there are lots of styles....maybe the Guild War Design Team needs to look at More Than the Short Braided Salon hair book, and really show variety in choices for both style, length, cut, and body of hair. Go to a real salon and see all the choices!!!! Nightfall hair is just limiting and only short braided hair for female monks.

arcanemacabre · Oct 03, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by TsunamiZ

what about racial imbalances in the face selection between chapters? the only main additional variation caucasians have over others is a few extra variety in colors of eye and hair. every Earth continent has people of significant and appealing face variations, too [of course certain variations can be distinct from other races]. lack of awareness of this partly due to caucasian people being presented more often in the media than any other race in caucasian countries. and the image of other races are often presented with stereotypical features, which leads to certain people to not be aware of these variations--which can range between quite different or quite similar to other races, depending on the individual. shouldn't guild wars consider that the limitations in expansion face / hair selection can be seen as a racial preference statement as well?

I never said it was right. Nay, I said it was insane. Racism is almost solely focused on the color of one's skin. Facial properties are so unique that aside from some obvious differences (like eyes for Asians or noses/lips for Africans), you can't discern the race of an individual without skintone. These are the roots of racism.

This is only presented as a limitation to Anet when they create character creation choices. They want to be able to show obvious differences in characters between different nations, so that there is that sense of nationalism, I'm guessing. Unfortunately, as I said, they cannot show only certain skintones because of the limitations of anti-racism movements (caused first by racism). That is my point.

As much as I love options, and seemingly limitless options at that, I can understand this kind of vision. It encourages RP, IMO. But do you realize the outrage if we were only able to create Caucasian characters in Tyria, Asian characters in Cantha, and African characters in Elona?

I must disagree with you about the 'media' presenting only stereotypes. That may have been the case in the 70's, moreso in the 60's, and even moreso in the 50's, but certainly not today. Of course, then again, I usually only watch Discovery & History Channel, so I think I get a fair mix of all that is out there, even if I don't travel.

TsunamiZ · Oct 03, 2006, 04:59 AM // 04:59

arcanemacabre:

i was only pointing out inconsistencies in the reasons behind the current racial limitations of the guild wars chapters. i wasn't criticizing your message.

arcanemacabre · Oct 03, 2006, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by TsunamiZ

arcanemacabre:

i was only pointing out inconsistencies in the reasons behind the current racial limitations of the guild wars chapters. i wasn't criticizing your message.

I'm aware of that. I was backing Anet up. I'm saying there should be total racial limitations, skintone and all, but it can't be that way because of PC/anti-racism movements.

Of course, that's an extreme statement (I just made), but it's true. In all honesty, it really doesn't matter as much as it sounds. Regardless, point had to be made.

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 03, 2006, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Gaile stated that the artists were working on faces, I believe she meant that they are both improving the existing faces and quite possibly adding new ones...

I caught that tidbit in another thread, about a chat someone had with her on Oct 2nd, you can find all of it in this thread :
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10054375

Sable Phoenix · Oct 03, 2006, 05:36 AM // 05:36

She meant they were working to add lipsynch to the existing faces.

As much as they need to expand the options for faces and hairstyles for the non-Prophecies chapters, I doubt it will happen.

People, let's quit derailing the topic. This is not about racial profiling or aesthetics or ethnocentrism. It's about the fact that the available choices for character creation are shrinking with each chapter, when at the very least we should have as many choices as we had in Prophecies.

perfect · Oct 03, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sable Phoenix

She meant they were working to add lipsynch to the existing faces.

Wrong, read her chat log. She explicitly states that the art team is working on improving current faces and adding new ones. Some of the faces that were seen in the Nightfall preview will be changed slightly and she recommends making a new character so you can choose from the revised selection.

http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?i...061001bth9.jpg

Lady Lozza · Oct 03, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

SAVE THE UGLY!

I'm sorry, but the idea of Anet monitoring and "improving" faces really worries me. I don't really want to have to choose between 10 different styles of cheerleader pigtails, or 10 different shades of blonde.

There is a proportion of the population who will go with ugly (because it is unique) and see if it grows on us. Why? Well it all started with those monk buns. My first monk had them too. I didn't really have a story behind my monk, unlike my ele and mesmer, and so just went with what looked "cute". But I ran into that same "cute" four times before I reached the gates of Ascalon City in pre-searing. That didn't work for me, so I created a monk with the hair piled on her head. Finished the game with her, but got so sick of people calling her Lina (yes she was basically a clone of Lina, completely unintential I assure you, hadn't got to the desert when I created her) that I just couldn't stand it anymore. My ignore list was only so long. So then I remade again. I went with the half-bald-do. Omg, it's so fugly, you might say, but it grew on me, and my monk was unique. Like any true tale-spinner, I now have a story about how she came to be half-bald. Oh her tattoo is a lovely brown

My point is this. There are a lot of people ingame who like creating their characters to be unique. We've been able to do that so far because the general population has been repulsed by certain (usually) hair options. The "ugly" options do get used, and those of us who embrace them and give them a character of their own, would miss them greatly.

Gedrand · Oct 03, 2006, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Well, if they're adding new faces, as our dear Gaile seems to say, then it looks like we can all chill out about this issue until Nightfall is released and see if that truly is the case.

If increased selection of facial appearance is important to many players, which it obviously is, then I'm confident that Anet will address the issue.

mqstout · Oct 03, 2006, 01:03 PM // 13:03

On a related note: why don't all the professions have the same list of hair color to choose from? For example, Paragon gets white hair, but Dervish does not; Necromancer gets green hair; Elementalist gets a very saturated wild color...

Omega X · Oct 03, 2006, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clawdius_Talonious

Gaile stated that the artists were working on faces, I believe she meant that they are both improving the existing faces and quite possibly adding new ones...

I caught that tidbit in another thread, about a chat someone had with her on Oct 2nd, you can find all of it in this thread :
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10054375

I mentioned that they weren't finished with the game about 2-3 pages back. And all I got was clueless responses.

People should know by now that beta software doesn't equal the finished product.

Sable Phoenix · Oct 03, 2006, 07:28 PM // 19:28

And yet, the Factions preview ended up displaying the same number of faces that were available at release.

I didn't see them claiming to be adding more faces, but let's say they did claim this. Given the previous track record, I'll believe it when I see it and not before.

TsunamiZ · Oct 03, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

I mentioned that they weren't finished with the game about 2-3 pages back. And all I got was clueless responses.

People should know by now that beta software doesn't equal the finished product.

you didnt seem to have paid attention to this area between releases

LadyNilene · Oct 03, 2006, 08:17 PM // 20:17

they just limit it to encourage you to buy every expansion...

Cineris · Oct 03, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

You're missing the point. The point is some players want more variety during the Character creation process.

I don't just want to make a Prophecy character, and then travel to Elonia. I can already do that.

I want the option to make an Elonian faced character in Prophecy, with Faction hair (since I own all three chapters).

And/Or getting rid of Profession specific choices would also help variety.

Yep.

I have never considered a character I've created to be "born" in one place or another. The continent you choose to adventure on first seems completely unrelated to the character's birthplace. You're creating a character, not writing a history. If you want to claim that your character was born on this or that continent, I really don't want to step in your way.

Choosing the campaign your character starts out in should be the last choice you make, not your first. That means that when you're creating your character's appearance all the options from every campaign you own should be available to you. (And yes, opening up profession specific choices where technically feasible would be nice.)

There's probably a reason that the Factions team decided to make you choose your campaign first (ie, it was easier), but it's a kludgy solution. The rationalization that it represents a character being "born" in a particular place is pretty flimsy. It certainly doesn't address the real issue, which is people wanting to utilize the art assets from campaigns they own in an intuitive way.

TsunamiZ · Oct 04, 2006, 05:38 AM // 05:38

btw: the voices for female paragons / dervishes are too distinctly african sounding--too low pitch and a bit rough. it would be best to use female voices for the 2 new professions that can pass for any race. go with a voice that's more neutral and less distinctly african. it would work better since not everyone creates an african looking paragon / dervish.

Sheriff · Oct 04, 2006, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrystalM

Then I suggest the Guild Wars Designers look closer at the choices you tracked.

The most well-known monk hair in Tyria is the Princess Leia hair....why.... It is the hair that is the least bald hair style of all the types available and it is not a short cut hair style.

Look at Factions, most of the hair styles chosen for Faction monks are the long hair styles.

Now why is it in Nightfall most of the Hair styles again are short short braided hair styles for female monks????? Now maybe we did not see all the styles going into the final release of Nightfall, but 90% of the styles are short braided ugly looking monk hair styles. And most people I know agree.

QFT (Quoted For Truth)

Also, IIRC, GWP used to give people the options of creating characters with green skin etc. I never used that myself, but I think it was refreshing to have those options.

Omega X · Oct 04, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by TsunamiZ

btw: the voices for female paragons / dervishes are too distinctly african sounding--too low pitch and a bit rough. it would be best to use female voices for the 2 new professions that can pass for any race. go with a voice that's more neutral and less distinctly african. it would work better since not everyone creates an african looking paragon / dervish.

I thought that this topic was about face/hair choices? Not preference in voice tone.